tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post7986207745601214183..comments2023-12-23T05:14:34.273-05:00Comments on Wit's End: MisprisionGail Zawackihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01800944469843206253noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-48322379256349798832014-11-05T08:31:12.670-05:002014-11-05T08:31:12.670-05:00Thanks I will look that up! That is the predicame...Thanks I will look that up! That is the predicament, isn't it - there is no morally acceptable way to curb our population...and no morally acceptable way to apply medical triage. So you have incredible amounts of resources, skill and time going towards keeping very old people or terminally ill people alive for a few extra weeks, and saving premature or otherwise damaged babies so they can have a lifetime of impairment and dependence. I was thinking yesterday that my dad, 2 of my sisters and myself, and two of my daughters all have very poor long-distance vision. How long would any of us have lasted in a world without glasses?Gail Zawackihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01800944469843206253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-56867753739058783222014-11-05T04:59:13.356-05:002014-11-05T04:59:13.356-05:00You might appreciate John Foster’s systematic atta...You might appreciate John Foster’s systematic attack on willed optimism, progressivism and the rhetoric of sustainability, After Sustainability: Denial, Hope, Retrieval. I’m only about half-way through at the moment, but this quote seemed especially relevant (2014: 86): ‘we don’t ask whether the attempt to eliminate hunger for an ever-growing population by either grossly overtaxing the Earth’s resources or taking huge techno-heroic risks with the biosphere does represent social improvement, or whether a better society for our children might not actually be one in which Malthusian elimination operated. Or, if this question is allowed to briefly cross our mental screens, willed optimism (so easily consonant with the illogic of progressivism…) is called forth to dismiss it as morally intolerable, and so not a real question.’ It isn't completely anti-hope, but it is a thorough critique of the myth of progress and most modes of optimism, plus there is a hefty dose of existential analysis and being-towards-death thrown in too.Paul Reid-Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05305501394205279347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-80428644441543554852014-11-04T18:34:26.468-05:002014-11-04T18:34:26.468-05:00Exactly although what needs to happen is for them ...Exactly although what needs to happen is for them to extrapolate out from annual agricultural crops to wild plants and trees, which are obviously even worse off since they get poisoned year over year. Grrrrrrrr!!!!!!!Gail Zawackihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01800944469843206253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-24539146116501676372014-11-04T18:28:22.308-05:002014-11-04T18:28:22.308-05:00Being right about the future of the human species,...Being right about the future of the human species, civilization, or our present environmental biosphere doesn't change much. But as you were saying... (about ozone and climate change!), THESE scientist share our opinion. <br /> <br />http://www.telegraphindia.com/1141104/jsp/nation/story_18997011.jsp<br /><br />catman306Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-56780191507347359662014-11-04T08:17:46.882-05:002014-11-04T08:17:46.882-05:00hey paul welcome to our unhappy little tribe, this...hey paul welcome to our unhappy little tribe, this recognition of the full impacts/scales of neurodiversity actually offers me some significant relief when i can remember it in the midst of unfortunate encounters/events involving neurotypicals plowing thru the world.<br />so much life wasted on outdated theories of repression/denial that wrongly assumed that at some level the truth/reality was hitting people and than they turned away and or buried it but in fact our worlds/umwelten are mostly pre-sorted/pre-judiced (as happens in say vision and acts of re-membering), so much lost to unreasonable senses of how reason-able we are capable of being.<br />-dmf<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-18304056490445158612014-11-04T07:54:19.301-05:002014-11-04T07:54:19.301-05:00If you want to get really depressed, watch this te...If you want to get really depressed, watch this tear-jerker (hey, it made me cry!) and then ask yourself why they never mention overpopulation and instead promote green growth and hope...https://vimeo.com/106898420Gail Zawackihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01800944469843206253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-28023301586605934482014-11-04T07:07:47.404-05:002014-11-04T07:07:47.404-05:00"[I]n a kind of darwinian ironic turn of the ..."[I]n a kind of darwinian ironic turn of the screw we the fringe depressive-realist mutants are going to get taken down with the rest of the biosphere by the very tech-enhanced cognitive biases that drive the masses and so allowed the species to briefly flourish like some blooming cancer". <br /><br />Agreed too. I'm filing this away as a useable quote; plus I have a new label for myself: a fringe depressive-realist mutant.Paul Reid-Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05305501394205279347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-65935169084729297152014-11-03T17:36:01.544-05:002014-11-03T17:36:01.544-05:00Indeed!!! :)Indeed!!! :)colinchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16925142870563262957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-87023477797812876362014-11-03T17:26:29.801-05:002014-11-03T17:26:29.801-05:00ha yes in a kind of darwinian ironic turn of the s...ha yes in a kind of darwinian ironic turn of the screw we the fringe depressive-realist mutants are going to get taken down with the rest of the biosphere by the very tech-enhanced<br />cognitive biases that drive the masses and so allowed the species to briefly flourish like some blooming cancer, so much for our old ideas of health, normalcy, evolutionary fitness, and all...<br />dirk Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-20541713864134961322014-11-03T16:25:09.603-05:002014-11-03T16:25:09.603-05:00"Given we all share the same cognitive capabi..."<i>Given we all share the same cognitive capabilities...</i>"<br /><br />Apneaman, please, will you disclose your evidence and explain your reasoning for such a statement? I have only observed a wide spectrum of cognitive function across everyone I have ever known, encountered or read. In other words, are you saying that J. Inhofe, M. Bachmann, S. Palin, etc. share your, Gail's, or my "<i>cognitive capability</i>?" Perhaps, in still other words, do you, me, Gail, et.al. share the "<i>cognitive capability</i>" of R. Feynman, C. Sagan or S. Hawking? I am genuinely curious to hear how you arrived at that summation.<br /><br />Nonetheless, I concur that the medical <i>breakthroughs</i> you mentioned, as well as others, <i>succeeded</i> beyond any anticipations to <i>population overshoot</i>. However, I think equally <i>at fault</i> were the determinations in how/when/why they were applied. Note, I recognize that this is, at best, a conundrum wrapped in an enigma and am not advocating in any way that an "<i>ability to pay</i>" be the sole criterion.<br /><br />Dirk, I concur completely that "<i>[t]rying to convert people whose cognitive-biases keep them blinkered from such realities is a waste of energy/time/etc..</i>" having done my absolute best, over more than a decade, to present the evidence of AGW and the <i>need</i> to alter 'our' behaviors to a literal horde of the unaware and ill-informed. The result of which has only been ridicule or ostracism, even by those who had formerly been deemed <i>friends</i>. <i>Believers</i> will continue to <i>believe</i> regardless of any and all other information. In light of that, I actually <i>renounced</i> my <i>membership</i> to the species known as <i>homo sapiens sapiens</i> some time ago as I perceive little in common with <i>them</i> beyond general physical form and color of blood. :) colinchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16925142870563262957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-2889978533034851192014-11-03T11:20:09.370-05:002014-11-03T11:20:09.370-05:00part of a sort of mourning process if nothing else...part of a sort of mourning process if nothing else, the question for me @ Syn-Zero and daily life is how to try and live a humane life in the full knowledge of our tragic alltoohuman limits and all the horrors and pressures that come with. Trying to convert people whose cognitive-biases keep them blinkered from such realities is a waste of energy/time/etc at a time when there really is none to spare and should be avoided if/as possible.<br />-dirk<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGrPz9fQWI8Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-84671997825639392242014-11-03T11:09:13.790-05:002014-11-03T11:09:13.790-05:00Of course it doesn't *matter* in the sense tha...Of course it doesn't *matter* in the sense that talking and writing will change anything - it's just a lot of blather. A LOT. But as you point out, it's very human. Once someone wakes up and realizes we are destroying the earth and the future, it would seem to be perfectly normal to ask a number of questions such as "why?" and "what can I do to stop this?" and, once the reality that there is nothing to be done to stop this registers, "what could have been different in the past to prevent this?" I don't begrudge people the process because in a very deep emotional way it matters very much how one answers those questions.<br />Gail Zawackihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01800944469843206253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-9970181857088255432014-11-03T10:16:03.017-05:002014-11-03T10:16:03.017-05:00If not for industrial civilization/ science the sp... If not for industrial civilization/ science the species might have gone on indefinitely due to disease and famine. Does anyone one think we would have the numbers to alter the planet uninhabitable without vaccines, anti biotic, reduced child mortality, etc? Yes we most certainly altered the environment prior to carbon fueled industrialization, but it is a fraction of a sliver compared to the last 270 years. One has to put in some serious time studying to realize the horrendous scope of destruction in less than 300 years. Jaw dropping, mind boggling, gob smacking and all the rest. Given we all share the same cognitive capabilities, what are the chances that a so called scientific revolution leading to the use of fossil carbon for industrial scale power would have happened elsewhere if not in the west (Britain)? Why does it matter? I personally know three people who lost their children just as their kids were becoming young adults and all of them have repeatedly done the "if only" and "it did not have to happen" mental torture to themselves. It's quite like the NTE game. Sad, but very human.<br />Apneaman Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-64832619316091729972014-11-03T09:44:01.943-05:002014-11-03T09:44:01.943-05:00I find it interesting that "ritualistic buria...I find it <i>interesting</i> that "ritualistic burial" began <i>only</i>(?) 50K ya! I wonder if it was due mainly to some <i>spontaneous</i> concern regarding predation by other animals or the inception of <i>over-powering</i> superstitions or some other motivation. That IS a thought-provoking graph and I'm guessing the article is, as well. I'm also <i>intrigued</i> by the author's name AND the date of publication!! "<i>Hmmmm!</i>"colinchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16925142870563262957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-57987931566595744112014-11-03T09:16:11.879-05:002014-11-03T09:16:11.879-05:00I just broke down and subscribed to New Scientist ...I just broke down and subscribed to New Scientist so I can read this:<br /><br />http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22429921.600-transformers-10-revolutions-that-made-us-human.html?full=true#.VFeMy_TF968<br /><br />If you're interested but don't subscribe and want to read it let me know and I'll paste it into an email. I'm excited because I have been wondering about how much the switch to eating meat had to do with subsequent evolution. Great graph here: http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/mg22429921.600/mg22429921.600-2_1200.jpg<br />Gail Zawackihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01800944469843206253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-50711883115910241732014-11-03T09:07:42.304-05:002014-11-03T09:07:42.304-05:00P.S. I'll check out the lost cities material t...P.S. I'll check out the lost cities material thanks.Paul Reid-Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05305501394205279347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-45413819644564184632014-11-03T09:05:54.920-05:002014-11-03T09:05:54.920-05:00Gail, I agree with all of this, so I’m only really...Gail, I agree with all of this, so I’m only really clarifying my own position. I’m not disputing that humans have always affected climate, negatively impacted other species, engaged in deforestation and migrated for environmental reasons. There was no pre-lapsarian golden age or ‘primitivist’ utopia. I’m just interested in how much worse the cultural/cognitive revolution of 45 to 70,000 years ago made things, via the development of more precise language/communication abilities, technologies, religion and art, and this was an element of the counterfactual that Claire was exploring too. But, yes, as long there has been a “we”, in the sense of homo sapiens, we have been post-Anthropocene. I just wonder (also as a counterfactual/thought experiment), how bad we might have been without the cultural/cognitive upgrade.Paul Reid-Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05305501394205279347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-32447182284049259122014-11-03T08:27:58.561-05:002014-11-03T08:27:58.561-05:00Haaa! That will be in my head all day, don't ...Haaa! That will be in my head all day, don't worry be happy - thanks, Catman!Gail Zawackihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01800944469843206253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-57082370079904283662014-11-03T08:27:05.175-05:002014-11-03T08:27:05.175-05:00It was "less" ecologically catastrophic ...It was "less" ecologically catastrophic than now, certainly but still, (reposting from FB) humans transformed entire ecosystems around the planet (land, not ocean) with fire and deforestation and driving dozens upon dozens of animals extinct, 50,000 years ago give or take. By "transformed" I mean wrecked. Once deforestation occurs, the climate is drastically altered - precipitation changes as well as temperature...deserts are created. In the opposite direction, Ghengis Khan killed so many people that enough farms reverted to forest to cool the climate. But aside from that, I take her point not to be so much that humans have always affected global climate, but that humans have had to deal with climate changes forever, which has caused mass migrations and extinctions in the past. RPauli just sent me a fun list of lost cities - collapsed ancient cultures are everywhere with the possible exception of Australia, which to me says that it is the human way. It cannot be coincidental that the pattern of overshoot and collapse is so ubiquitous. I recommend scrolling through the list, it's impressive, and even so of course can only be some fraction of the total. http://www.touropia.com/lost-cities/<br />Gail Zawackihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01800944469843206253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-53687910786402937742014-11-02T19:35:50.434-05:002014-11-02T19:35:50.434-05:00I'd doubt that genes have philosophies or the ...I'd doubt that genes have philosophies or the sense of self importance that we humans have, but they'll survive the anthropocene pretty much unscathed. Genes are the principle life form on our planet and always take the shape of their physical environment (climate, solar output, geologic upheaval, chemical composition of the atmosphere, etc.) and evolve living carriers (life forms like cockroaches or humans) that are suited to that particular set of conditions of the time and space (what already exists in a specific location). Our genes will never miss us and merely take on some new shape.<br /><br />The Selfish Gene is a book on evolution by Richard Dawkins, published in 1976. It builds upon the principal theory of George C. Williams's first book Adaptation and Natural Selection. Dawkins used the term "selfish gene" as a way of expressing the gene-centred view of evolution as opposed to the views focused on the organism and the group, popularising ideas developed during the 1960s by W. D. Hamilton and others. From the gene-centred view follows that the more two individuals are genetically related, the more sense (at the level of the genes) it makes for them to behave selflessly with each other. Therefore the concept is especially good at explaining many forms of altruism. This should not be confused with misuse of the term along the lines of a selfishness gene.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Selfish_Gene<br /><br />Surely Ms. Colebrook realizes the problem of scale. Worrying about the human catastrophe and how we got to it is missing the difference in scale between the needs of 7 billion genes (a drop of water) and the needs (and wants) of 7 billion humans.<br />Don't worry, be happy!<br />catman<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-34571090984750355202014-11-02T18:36:42.054-05:002014-11-02T18:36:42.054-05:00Agreed on the fire use prior to the cultural/cogni...Agreed on the fire use prior to the cultural/cognitive revolution, I guess what I'm trying to work through is what kind of difference that revolution actually made for our developmental trajectory. Specifically, what kind of accelerant was it? I take your point about exponential growth curves, I just wonder how much longer human overshoot might have taken without that change and how devastating for other life forms on Earth it would have been without it. That is, without urban living, agriculture and then eventually industrialism, one can imagine human overshoot being geographically constrained, sporadic and less ecologically catastrophic than now. But it's all speculative and pretty much irrelevant on geological timespans; and one doesn't need to squint particularly hard to see that humans exhibit most of the markers of a plague species.Paul Reid-Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05305501394205279347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-24721156605210672822014-11-02T17:16:09.677-05:002014-11-02T17:16:09.677-05:00But, the megafaunal extinctions happened well befo...But, the megafaunal extinctions happened well before much technological advances and way, way before agriculture. They started with fire, that is what set humans outside of the prior constraints of natural selection. So...somebody was saying that exponential change looks so much like flat, no change, until the very last moments. I think that is what the human population exemplifies.<br />Gail Zawackihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01800944469843206253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-51037995021255332152014-11-02T16:57:03.694-05:002014-11-02T16:57:03.694-05:00I suspect whether "we" could have done t...I suspect whether "we" could have done things otherwise depends on the inevitability of the cultural/cognitive revolution when behaviourally modern humans appeared on the scene. My view tends to be that once that happened and our technological capacities were reinforced, then Dilworth's vicious circle principle starts to really kick in and the big megafauna extinctions unfold, the agricultural revolution etc., etc. I reckon we had a fair dose of violent tendencies prior to that but could probably have pottered around on the planet without any catastrophic impact for several hundreds of thousands of years.Paul Reid-Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05305501394205279347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-90619848393941707782014-11-02T16:38:58.513-05:002014-11-02T16:38:58.513-05:00So at the risk of banishment I left this comment a...So at the risk of banishment I left this comment at NBL where the debate rages over whether we could have done things any differently: “Our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light.” Notice Sagan talks about our “fervent hatreds” and makes no distinction between race, class, geographical or temporal location when he describes the “folly of HUMAN conceits”. When you look at the BIG picture, at scale, we are all one species and our destructive, extractive behavior is indistinguishable between cultures and epochs. This doesn’t excuse egregious evil. But it puts it solidly within the purview of who we all are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wupToqz1e2g<br />Gail Zawackihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01800944469843206253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5549306427964459740.post-5586570245811752422014-11-02T16:34:31.210-05:002014-11-02T16:34:31.210-05:00I was wondering if she would have my baby?
I was wondering if she would have my baby?<br />Gail Zawackihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01800944469843206253noreply@blogger.com